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	<title>Comments on: Three Gorges Dam, Current Issues with Historical Context</title>
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	<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/</link>
	<description>The MBA Graduate Program at Cal Poly</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Robyn Bowie</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-4903</link>
		<dc:creator>Robyn Bowie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 05:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-4903</guid>
		<description>This was interesting to read about because the book I read for this quarter took place back around 1996/1997, when the Three Gorges Dam was just being thought of and announced. Peter Hessler, the author of the book journeyed through many of the areas that are now covered or about to be covered by the Three Gorges Dam project. It was interesting to hear how unconcerned the people who lived in those areas were back during this time. Hessler wrote about how the people didn't really seem to look forward and worry about the future much.

It was interesting to read this book knowing that now the project has progressed quite a lot. It is sad that they are forcing all of these people to move and it is also sad to know that there are carvings and other aspects of history that are being covered. Unfortunately, the Chinese government seems to be unconcerned about this. I think Naomi may be correct about the groupthink taking over. I also agree with Brandi's thoughts on China's desire to impress, which has become more and more apparent as we get closer to the Olympics. Hopefully this project won't go too wrong and in the end will have some benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was interesting to read about because the book I read for this quarter took place back around 1996/1997, when the Three Gorges Dam was just being thought of and announced. Peter Hessler, the author of the book journeyed through many of the areas that are now covered or about to be covered by the Three Gorges Dam project. It was interesting to hear how unconcerned the people who lived in those areas were back during this time. Hessler wrote about how the people didn&#8217;t really seem to look forward and worry about the future much.</p>
<p>It was interesting to read this book knowing that now the project has progressed quite a lot. It is sad that they are forcing all of these people to move and it is also sad to know that there are carvings and other aspects of history that are being covered. Unfortunately, the Chinese government seems to be unconcerned about this. I think Naomi may be correct about the groupthink taking over. I also agree with Brandi&#8217;s thoughts on China&#8217;s desire to impress, which has become more and more apparent as we get closer to the Olympics. Hopefully this project won&#8217;t go too wrong and in the end will have some benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Naomi Guy</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2908</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 02:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2908</guid>
		<description>Great job compiling these articles! I'd like to take a stab at Prof. Carr's comment about the engineering "groupthink" being a cause of these developments.  One element of groupthink is the ability to  create an illusion of invulnerability (Thanks OB!).  By creating these illusions the engineers felt they could take larger risks and be rewarded for them.  In this specific case, they took risks with the environment and the many lives they could damage.  It's quite unfortunate this had to occur, but the closer I look at the situation, the more possible groupthink could have been a cause.  

The second thing I would like to take a stab at, is Kyle's comments about the costs of economic prosperity.  As extreme as it seems, I do agree that in order to keep moving forward there are times we need to lose sight of the past.  I'm not meaning to say I agree with the methods the government took, but I can not condemn them for trying to push forward.  If we were constantly looking at the past and trying to preserve it fully, we simply would not be where we are today.  There are always going to be unforeseen costs to any new developments, but it is the responsibility of those in charge to minimize them or arrange an alternative solution in which both parties can benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great job compiling these articles! I&#8217;d like to take a stab at Prof. Carr&#8217;s comment about the engineering &#8220;groupthink&#8221; being a cause of these developments.  One element of groupthink is the ability to  create an illusion of invulnerability (Thanks OB!).  By creating these illusions the engineers felt they could take larger risks and be rewarded for them.  In this specific case, they took risks with the environment and the many lives they could damage.  It&#8217;s quite unfortunate this had to occur, but the closer I look at the situation, the more possible groupthink could have been a cause.  </p>
<p>The second thing I would like to take a stab at, is Kyle&#8217;s comments about the costs of economic prosperity.  As extreme as it seems, I do agree that in order to keep moving forward there are times we need to lose sight of the past.  I&#8217;m not meaning to say I agree with the methods the government took, but I can not condemn them for trying to push forward.  If we were constantly looking at the past and trying to preserve it fully, we simply would not be where we are today.  There are always going to be unforeseen costs to any new developments, but it is the responsibility of those in charge to minimize them or arrange an alternative solution in which both parties can benefit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Bilsten</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2887</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Bilsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 22:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2887</guid>
		<description>Rob this is a great post.  I've read some great comments on the dam and it's cultural, economical and ethically related issues so I'll concentrate on what spurred my interest: the US link.

The question you asked about why our own citizens don't criticize our own government like we do the Chinese government sums up the main problem we have with our "democracy".  We're too worried about other countries and what they're doing and we don't concentrate on our own.  We have more problems internally that need our own attention.  We waste energy worrying about what other countries think of us, and if we can help them when our own is falling apart.  We're flooding our own ethics rivers with dam's of deceit and we ignore them because we're too focused on pop culture and other people/countries problems.

The US citizens need to stand up and look at our own country and start to question it.  We need to get back to what makes the US so great: the constitution.  China can be that catalyst as they pass us both economically and militarily.  They can spur some enthusiasm by the American public to start caring and looking at our own Hoover dam's and ask the question, "Why?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob this is a great post.  I&#8217;ve read some great comments on the dam and it&#8217;s cultural, economical and ethically related issues so I&#8217;ll concentrate on what spurred my interest: the US link.</p>
<p>The question you asked about why our own citizens don&#8217;t criticize our own government like we do the Chinese government sums up the main problem we have with our &#8220;democracy&#8221;.  We&#8217;re too worried about other countries and what they&#8217;re doing and we don&#8217;t concentrate on our own.  We have more problems internally that need our own attention.  We waste energy worrying about what other countries think of us, and if we can help them when our own is falling apart.  We&#8217;re flooding our own ethics rivers with dam&#8217;s of deceit and we ignore them because we&#8217;re too focused on pop culture and other people/countries problems.</p>
<p>The US citizens need to stand up and look at our own country and start to question it.  We need to get back to what makes the US so great: the constitution.  China can be that catalyst as they pass us both economically and militarily.  They can spur some enthusiasm by the American public to start caring and looking at our own Hoover dam&#8217;s and ask the question, &#8220;Why?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Witold Sadowski</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2878</link>
		<dc:creator>Witold Sadowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 04:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2878</guid>
		<description>On Brandi’s point that it is easier to criticize actions of other nations than of our own… just consider this video:  

&lt;strong&gt;http://www.youtube.com/v/DW-srRx7co4&#38;rel=1&lt;/strong&gt;

Buying American does not automatically mean that the product will be safer.  It can be argued, as seen in the video, that when safety problems like these arise – China at times has the ability to react faster to fix the problem.   In the US, the FDA can take considerable time in recalling drugs while in the mean time people continue using them.  Even in the case of Avandia, GlaxoSmithKline’s top selling diabetes drug, the drug maker made an effort to hide concerns from the public.
  
According to the &lt;a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119524107384696003.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Wall Street Journal&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, “Over a period of several years, drug maker GlaxoSmithKline PLC was so concerned about a prominent physician's negative views of its diabetes drug that it engaged in a concerted effort to intimidate him and stifle his opinion, a report by the U.S. Senate Finance Committee found.”

While GlaxoSmithKline has &lt;a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&#38;sid=aSHN8TcSC8Cc&#38;refer=home" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;strong&gt;recently agreed&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt; to the FDA's request to conduct a new trial of Avandia, the results won't be available until 2014.  

If China had the same policy as the FDA for leaving products on the market until issues resolved themselves in court or in clinical trails – I believe America would be in an uproar.  While here in the US, we give the benefit of the doubt to the good ‘ol drug companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Brandi’s point that it is easier to criticize actions of other nations than of our own… just consider this video:  </p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DW-srRx7co4&amp;rel=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/v/DW-srRx7co4&amp;rel=1</a></strong></p>
<p>Buying American does not automatically mean that the product will be safer.  It can be argued, as seen in the video, that when safety problems like these arise – China at times has the ability to react faster to fix the problem.   In the US, the FDA can take considerable time in recalling drugs while in the mean time people continue using them.  Even in the case of Avandia, GlaxoSmithKline’s top selling diabetes drug, the drug maker made an effort to hide concerns from the public.</p>
<p>According to the <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119524107384696003.html?mod=googlenews_wsj" rel="nofollow"><strong>Wall Street Journal</strong></a>, “Over a period of several years, drug maker GlaxoSmithKline PLC was so concerned about a prominent physician&#8217;s negative views of its diabetes drug that it engaged in a concerted effort to intimidate him and stifle his opinion, a report by the U.S. Senate Finance Committee found.”</p>
<p>While GlaxoSmithKline has <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&amp;sid=aSHN8TcSC8Cc&amp;refer=home" rel="nofollow"><strong>recently agreed</strong></a> to the FDA&#8217;s request to conduct a new trial of Avandia, the results won&#8217;t be available until 2014.  </p>
<p>If China had the same policy as the FDA for leaving products on the market until issues resolved themselves in court or in clinical trails – I believe America would be in an uproar.  While here in the US, we give the benefit of the doubt to the good ‘ol drug companies.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Tripp</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2865</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Tripp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 20:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2865</guid>
		<description>The Kaixian county seat, with is now destroyed, had existed for 1,800 years. Is it worth demolishing a piece of history for growth?  These benefits from the Dam seem to be beneficial for the continued growth of China.  That is only if the completion is successful. Recently, however, officials have made candid statements that the country could face a catastrophe if it fails to act quickly to stop riverbank erosion and other problems caused by the dam.  This dam is going to kill lives and for what.  Do the benefits out way the negatives?  Until the full potential of this dam is realized it just seems like a giant mistake.  Like posted above, U.S. dams have receive the same type of scrutiny.  So I guess we can just be hopeful and hope for success.  It is hard to justify that some lives have to end for economic growth, but that seems to be the common trend. I know that this a extreme way to think, but it happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Kaixian county seat, with is now destroyed, had existed for 1,800 years. Is it worth demolishing a piece of history for growth?  These benefits from the Dam seem to be beneficial for the continued growth of China.  That is only if the completion is successful. Recently, however, officials have made candid statements that the country could face a catastrophe if it fails to act quickly to stop riverbank erosion and other problems caused by the dam.  This dam is going to kill lives and for what.  Do the benefits out way the negatives?  Until the full potential of this dam is realized it just seems like a giant mistake.  Like posted above, U.S. dams have receive the same type of scrutiny.  So I guess we can just be hopeful and hope for success.  It is hard to justify that some lives have to end for economic growth, but that seems to be the common trend. I know that this a extreme way to think, but it happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Tai Massion</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2844</link>
		<dc:creator>Tai Massion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2844</guid>
		<description>And there are more dams to come.  Constriction on three of the twelve proposed dams (of this magnitude) have begun.  Will builders continually try to outdo each other by building bigger?  Can water pressure on the earth from the Three Gorges Dam actually cause an earthquake as stated in the last posted article?  An earthquake is hard for me to believe, but if it’s true that’s huge.  Also hard to imagine are the number of people who will be displaced from dam construction by 2020 ~10 Million. The standard of living for those displaced certainly goes down.  

Considering the Chinese economy, is the hydroelectricity and the break from coal balanced by the millions displaced?  It depends what side of the story you are on.  The new emerging class of leaders may view it as valuable, seeing how America is dependent on oil.  Maybe hydroelectricity will be their answer too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And there are more dams to come.  Constriction on three of the twelve proposed dams (of this magnitude) have begun.  Will builders continually try to outdo each other by building bigger?  Can water pressure on the earth from the Three Gorges Dam actually cause an earthquake as stated in the last posted article?  An earthquake is hard for me to believe, but if it’s true that’s huge.  Also hard to imagine are the number of people who will be displaced from dam construction by 2020 ~10 Million. The standard of living for those displaced certainly goes down.  </p>
<p>Considering the Chinese economy, is the hydroelectricity and the break from coal balanced by the millions displaced?  It depends what side of the story you are on.  The new emerging class of leaders may view it as valuable, seeing how America is dependent on oil.  Maybe hydroelectricity will be their answer too.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Carr</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2831</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2831</guid>
		<description>Here is today's &lt;em&gt;NY Times &lt;/em&gt;article touching on the subject of this post ....  &lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href="http://select.nytimes.com/mem/tnt.html?_r=1&#038;emc=tnt&#038;tntget=2007/11/19/world/asia/19dam.html&#038;tntemail1=y&#038;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow"&gt;Chinese Dam Projects Criticized for Their Human Costs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;.

Rob -- I am optimistic this new generation of leaders in China will be an improvement over the previous lots.  They have their hands full.  I would not want their job, even if I had all the power that went along with it.  Time will tell.  

Given your age and that of your classmates, you are all much more likely to see the answer to this question and how the story unfolds than me.  You can tell your kids, "I went there and saw how the early part of this story developed from the ground up.  Now let me tell you about the way it really was ...."  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is today&#8217;s <em>NY Times </em>article touching on the subject of this post &#8230;.  <strong><a href="http://select.nytimes.com/mem/tnt.html?_r=1&#038;emc=tnt&#038;tntget=2007/11/19/world/asia/19dam.html&#038;tntemail1=y&#038;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">Chinese Dam Projects Criticized for Their Human Costs</a></strong>.</p>
<p>Rob &#8212; I am optimistic this new generation of leaders in China will be an improvement over the previous lots.  They have their hands full.  I would not want their job, even if I had all the power that went along with it.  Time will tell.  </p>
<p>Given your age and that of your classmates, you are all much more likely to see the answer to this question and how the story unfolds than me.  You can tell your kids, &#8220;I went there and saw how the early part of this story developed from the ground up.  Now let me tell you about the way it really was &#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Belloni</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2825</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Belloni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2825</guid>
		<description>Brandi - I enjoyed your feedback and agree with your points.  It was hard for me to cover all of the aspects of the dam in a post that would be short enough to get people to read it so I focused on some key points, but you are right about yours as well.    

Dr. Carr - I read the WSJ article about up and coming leaders in China.  Some interesting ramifications there in relation to your Dec. 17th post. 

 If foreign educated leaders rise to power in China perhaps we will see real change in policy.  The WSJ article did not seem to think so, but I don't see how someone could live abroad, then come back to China and not see the negative aspects of communism with a different eye.  Education can be a powerful change agent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandi - I enjoyed your feedback and agree with your points.  It was hard for me to cover all of the aspects of the dam in a post that would be short enough to get people to read it so I focused on some key points, but you are right about yours as well.    </p>
<p>Dr. Carr - I read the WSJ article about up and coming leaders in China.  Some interesting ramifications there in relation to your Dec. 17th post. </p>
<p> If foreign educated leaders rise to power in China perhaps we will see real change in policy.  The WSJ article did not seem to think so, but I don&#8217;t see how someone could live abroad, then come back to China and not see the negative aspects of communism with a different eye.  Education can be a powerful change agent.</p>
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		<title>By: jimmy</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2816</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2816</guid>
		<description>[Comment deleted.  Irrelevant.  Nonsensical.  Appears to be a personal attack.  So poorly written it looked like spam. 'jimmy', whoever you are, you will need to do much better than that if you want to be a part of the discussion in this forum.  Stick to the issues, please.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Comment deleted.  Irrelevant.  Nonsensical.  Appears to be a personal attack.  So poorly written it looked like spam. 'jimmy', whoever you are, you will need to do much better than that if you want to be a part of the discussion in this forum.  Stick to the issues, please.]</p>
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		<title>By: Deanna Haskell</title>
		<link>http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2810</link>
		<dc:creator>Deanna Haskell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://calpolymbatrip.com/2007/china/three-gorges-dam-current-issues-with-historical-context/#comment-2810</guid>
		<description>This is a really interesting analysis of the Three Gorges Project.  I like that you pointed out the problems with U.S. dams. Another big problem with dams in CA is that our dams have casued a polluted water supply for Mexico.  Many dams were built as WPA projects and I think that it would be interesting to compare the phase that China's economy was in when they built the dam to the phase that the U.S.'s economy was in when they built many of their dams. 
Dam building seems like a necessary evil to produce cheap , clean electrcity and to irrigate farmland.  

It could be interesting to look at the future costs that will be associated with the Three Gorges Dam.  There are the obvious costs such as the loss of historical items, and the displacement of families.  So what effect will that have on the economy?  Will the displaced families move to the cities and join a workforce related to a big industry or will they move to a different part of the countryside.  If they move to the cities , then what cost will be associated with that move.  Will the government have to commission more housing projects to accommodate those people.  In addition, what will happen if they have to decommission the dam due to poor engineering? Three Gorges is another example of nationalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really interesting analysis of the Three Gorges Project.  I like that you pointed out the problems with U.S. dams. Another big problem with dams in CA is that our dams have casued a polluted water supply for Mexico.  Many dams were built as WPA projects and I think that it would be interesting to compare the phase that China&#8217;s economy was in when they built the dam to the phase that the U.S.&#8217;s economy was in when they built many of their dams.<br />
Dam building seems like a necessary evil to produce cheap , clean electrcity and to irrigate farmland.  </p>
<p>It could be interesting to look at the future costs that will be associated with the Three Gorges Dam.  There are the obvious costs such as the loss of historical items, and the displacement of families.  So what effect will that have on the economy?  Will the displaced families move to the cities and join a workforce related to a big industry or will they move to a different part of the countryside.  If they move to the cities , then what cost will be associated with that move.  Will the government have to commission more housing projects to accommodate those people.  In addition, what will happen if they have to decommission the dam due to poor engineering? Three Gorges is another example of nationalism.</p>
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